Babasaheb Ambedkar and the Nefarious Agenda of the RSS

Newsclick interviewed Civil Rights Activist and author Anand Teltumbde on the issues of appropriation of Dr. B.R.Ambedkar by the right wing forces in the country. Teltumbde feels that not only the right wing but most of the ruling parties are trying to do it for the electoral benefits while they have no connection with his ideology or understanding historically. The RSS and views of Baba Saheb on the caste system and Hindu religion are very contradictory. RSS on one hand believes in maintaining supremacy of upper caste and want to govern society on basis of repressive Manusmriti while Dr Ambedkar staunchly criticised it and finally left Hinduism. How can both come on same stage, questioned Teltumbde. He in detail also talked about Dr Ambedkar's view on economic growth and how it is in contrast with views of the right wing. Dr Teltumbde feels that the appropriation by the right wing is an attempt to sabotage history and turn it in their favour.

Rough Transcript:

Pranjal: Hello and welcome to Newsclick. Today, we are going to talk about appropriation of the Ambedkar by the Right Wing. To discuss the issue, we have with us Anand Teltumbde, civil rights activists from Mumbai. Welcome to Newsclick. So if we look at the Right Wing today, it seems to be appropriating Ambedkar in a big way. What was Ambedkar's view on the caste system and what was his view on RSS and Right Wing specifically trying to appropriate him?

Anand Teltumbde (AT): You see, it is not RSS alone all the ruling party has been after Ambedkar and it all started after mid 60s. Just to trace the chronology of it, basically the kind of political economic policy that were pursued by the ruling classes in this country created that kind of situation that electoral politics became very competitive and the importance of the vote bank thereby came in. Now, vote bank in India like countries is available only in terms of caste and communities. Dalit beings something like very substantial 16.3 percent of the population and seemingly being around Ambedkar it becomes an inexpensive proposition for for any political party to woo them and Ambedkar becomes an icon, if you build up Ambedkar then entire Dalit masses could be actually after that, after your party. So the process started right from the Congress strategy to induct Ambedkar to the constituent assembly and to the Nehru cabinet but experiment did not succeed. Ambedkar had to come out of the cabinet etc. that is the history. But thereafter, when he died almost almost for two decades he was ignored ,at least one decade. As I said, mid 60s it all started because at that time there was a big countrywide agitation for the land lodged by Dalits under leadership of Dadasaheb Gaikwad and that alarmed the ruling classes. That time ruling class meaning that was Congress. Congress party and these people were not in the scene. For Hindutva camp, Ambedkar was an anathema because he spoke so harshly against Hinduism and all their Gods and Goddesses and ultimately actually embraced Buddhism. Now, what they see Buddhism something like a part of Hinduism etc. that was not the understanding. Savarkar for instance denigrated Buddhism because he thought that with Buddhism coming in it incapacitated Hinduism. They had that kind of conception and they meant by that and Ambedkar meant by that. So Ambedkar was not a palatable persona for the Hindutva camps for long many years. So when actually if you trace it out, when it all started because all these people, all these development etc., not clicking for BJP and RSS without Dalits, they would not be anywhere they realize and when Balasaheb Deoras, the lowest profile Sar Sanghchalak came in, actually he did this kind of policy. He silently co-opted Ambedkar into the Tatah Smaraneeya and followed it for quite sometime. It was going by the silent work and then came out somewhere in 82-83 with Samarasta Manch. The social harmony platform kind of thing and they started sort of that kind of work and they succeeded to a great extent because by that time, on the other hand Dalit movement was actually dilapidated got fragmented hopelessly and that came handy for those people. So therefore, this co-optation process started.

Pranjal: So if you look at constitution formulation process also RSS did not believe in the Indian constitution while it wanted constitution based on the Manusmruti. So there was a contrast between the two of them so how does this churning within the RSS start?

AT: Yeah, initially they did not believe in anything but later on they realized that RSS is a very flexible kind of body and the core remains intact. But appearances and all this hydra headed organization that they created, they could speak in many many voices. So they realized that kind of approach covers constitution, covers Ambedkar, covered Indian nation and all kind of things nobody do work. After, they started slowly changing the stance. Earlier time it was clear firstly they did not believe in Constituent Assembly or somebody writing the constitution. Then they said the constitution already exist for the Indian nation. So the new constitution was required.

Pranjal: Can you throw some light on Ambedkar's idea of the economic issues or Ambedkar idea or democracy and what was the view of Right Wing on it?

AT: Ambedkar as regard economic policy is concerned, there should not be any confusion that Ambedkar wanted socialism. He did have reservation about the Marxian concept of socialism etc. but that apart. You must know the first party that Ambedkar floated was an Indian Independent Labour Party. So that again he projected himself to be the working class leader and actually that boomeranged and when the Cribs mission came and submitted the report at that time, Cribs asked him that my mandate is not to talk about something like working class leader because at that time there was no one to represent Dalit and because of that they faced a debacle during the Cribs negotiation. This is the history. Later on, on the eve of constituent assembly he had written a book called states in minority. States in minority is something like state socialism agenda almost everything what could be practicable during those days. Actually it is written there if even that kind of thing followed. No problem, actually Ambedkar was inspired by the Fabian kind of socialism etc. that is the treatise of that kind of socialism it almost gives a blue print. So there should not be any confusion about Ambedkar being a socialist. Now, that would not go well with the Hindutva camp. Actually, basic core ideology of the Hindutva and people do not still put fingers on that is that they want to recreate the same paradigm that existed in India. A rule of elitist people who would rule the country, who would give the directions and everybody would be subservient to them and they would be slaughtered at the various scale. It is akin to the caste system actually. So this is the way they wanted to recreate. The socialism, all these kinds of ideas howsoever they might create the noises around are not compatible with what they stand for.

Pranjal: Can you throw some light on what was Ambedkar's view on the Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh?

AT: There are no recorded views about the Ambedkar on RSS. But there are indirect references as to... of... Pakistan, Ambedkar says if Hindu Rashtra comes to being in India, it would be greatest calamity. So that kind of references are there. There are plethora of references about Hinduism anywhere, everybody knows that. But about Hindutva politics per se, there are .. such kinds of references----- in Pakistan. Now RSS claim that Ambedkar visited their camp. Ambedkar might had give..... Thengandi says he was praised for Sangha. All these things that appears to be their fabrication because there are no counter references anywhere.

Pranjal: So this would be my last question. If you look at Ambedkar's writings on caste, RSS understanding of caste, they are quite contradictory. So it is just that electoral benefits that RSS is trying to appropriate Ambedkar? Is it something else also?

AT: See RSS has to. RSS meaning entire Sangha Parivar has to reach somewhere and they can not sublimate from this stage to that stage. So this is going to be the process and now, the process is going to be laid out. The electoral politics howsoever they ignore it, they can not. So this is the process to reach there. When they reach sufficient majority etc., actually they have given sufficient indication this time itself. When they actually got the majority, (unko ek tarah ki masti chadh gayi hain type, log boltey hain sadak par unko masti chadh gayi hain). So what they are going to do after getting absolute majority in both the houses etc., is clear. They would change the constitution. Probably, install something like Presidential system these are logical kind of things which one can expect them to do. So ultimately, the entire RSS believes in that kind of fascist paradigm and Hindutva paradigm also matches with that. So there is nothing sort to.. one needs to compare with those kinds of things. So one leader, one nation, one language, one Rashtra and all that kind of things. They would create something like Rashtradhyaksha and that Presidential kind of system and do that. But, Dalit votes etc., are in process. After they are done with that, then they whatever happens to Dalit is stand for imagination....

 

DISCLAIMER: Please note that transcripts for Newsclick are typed from a recording of the program. Newsclick cannot guarantee their complete accuracy.